AYESHA RASCOE, HOST:
The relationship between China and Cuba has been getting more attention lately from Congress. During a recent hearing, a House committee saw new satellite images that allegedly show signs of Chinese intelligence operations on the island. Republican Congressman Carlos Gimenez of Florida, a longtime critic of the Cuban government, used dire language during the hearing.
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CARLOS GIMENEZ: This collaboration represents one of the most brazen intelligence operations ever attempted near the American mainland.
RASCOE: NPR's Eyder Peralta just met with Cuba's deputy foreign minister in Mexico City, and he's here to share part of that conversation. Welcome, Eyder.
EYDER PERALTA, BYLINE: Hey, Ayesha.
RASCOE: So, Eyder, I assume you asked the foreign minister about this congressional hearing and those satellite photos that were presented.
PERALTA: I did. And I thought this conversation was important because the context has changed. You have an administration right now that is openly hostile toward Cuba. And what we're talking about right now is a report from a think tank, the Center for Strategic and International Studies. And they looked through commercially available satellite imagery, and they say it's very likely that Cuba is allowing China to build spy tools on the island, and they want the U.S. to take action. So my first question to Deputy Foreign Minister Carlos Fernandez de Cossio Dominguez was direct. Is China building spy bases in Cuba? And I want to play for you a part of the interview I had with him.
CARLOS FERNANDEZ DE COSSIO DOMINGUEZ: It is not. And there is no foreign military base in Cuba, with the exception of the Guantanamo U.S. military base, which is there against the will of the Cuban people. Now, there was a hearing in Congress. No military expert was there. It was academics from think tanks, but there's no basis to what they were saying. They showed certain pictures that show nothing.
PERALTA: Specifically, what they say is there is an array of antennas, right? Is that not there?
DE COSSIO DOMINGUEZ: There are many antennas in Cuba, which have diverse technology. But there's a huge difference between having antennas and having a military base of offensive nature against another country.
PERALTA: And, Ayesha, China has denied having intelligence bases in Cuba, but a state department spokesperson told us, quote, "China will keep trying to enhance its presence in Cuba, and we will keep working to end it.
RASCOE: There's another piece of news, but this time it involves Russia. The country says it will invest up to $1 billion on the island in things such as energy, technology and tourism. Tell me more about that.
PERALTA: Yeah, I mean, this was announced just after Cuban President Miguel Diaz-Canel met with Russian President Vladimir Putin. And, of course, it comes at a tense moment for U.S. and Cuba relations. So I asked deputy foreign minister, why add fuel to the fire by taking this money? And he said the U.S. has better relations with Russia than Cuba does. So why would they be angry about Cuba taking loans from Russia? But this is also a lifeline for Cuba. At the moment, Cuba can hardly keep the lights on. In the past two years, 10% of its population has left. Some Cubans are literally going hungry. So this money is a huge deal for the Cubans.
RASCOE: Eyder, what did the deputy foreign minister have to say about those conditions that you're talking about in Cuba?
PERALTA: You know, I asked him a more philosophical question for this because the last time I was in Cuba - a year and a half, two years ago - you know, I found a very different country. Yes, it's a country that is very much crumbling, but I also found a country where the division between the haves and the have-nots is more visible - much more than before - where if you have access to dollars, you can lead a fabulous life, and if you don't, you're struggling to eat. I asked the deputy foreign minister, wasn't the dream of the Cuban revolution to build an egalitarian society? And I asked him, is that dream dead?
DE COSSIO DOMINGUEZ: It's true. Cuba is now more similar, in some ways, to capitalist countries, to our region, to the U.S., in which you have a small number of people who have a lot of money and a majority which are have-nots. We still have a system of social justice and care and health care, education, jobs, housing. The dream is not gone. The dream is there, and our aim is to achieve it.
PERALTA: But to achieve it, he says, they have to fix their economic problems. And the reality is that economic growth for Cuba would be much easier if they had a better relationship with the U.S. One of the sticking points - and this has been true for decades - is that the U.S. wants Cuba to have a multiparty political system. I asked the deputy foreign minister, why stick to this one-party dogma in Cuba? Why not offer a political opening to the United States, especially if it might help ease sanctions and, in turn, help with the suffering of the Cuban people?
DE COSSIO DOMINGUEZ: The aim of the United States is to control the fate of Cuba, to treat Cuba as a possession. Their problem is not a single party because the United States has excellent relationships with countries that have no party whatsoever. Therefore, we would be very naive in Cuba to believe that that is a problem.
RASCOE: That's Cuba's deputy foreign minister, Carlos Fernandez de Cossio Dominguez, talking to NPR's Eyder Peralta. Eyder, thank you so much.
PERALTA: Thank you, Ayesha. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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